In this special episode of The TMI Project Story Hour, Jay Jackson, known to many as RuPaul’s Drag Race superstar Laganja Estranja, reveals a more intimate side of her true self.
In this special episode of The TMI Project Story Hour, Jay Jackson, known to many as RuPaul’s Drag Race superstar Laganja Estranja, reveals a more intimate side of her true self. Tune in to hear how her drag career inspired a profound shift in embracing her femininity-- and how full self-acceptance helped her not only live authentically but become a fierce advocate for the trans community. The episode culminates with a powerful speech from Celeste Lecesne, co-founder of The Trevor Project, as they lovingly present Jay with TMI Project’s Voices in Action Award, honoring her important work as an artist and activist.
Writing Prompt: Write a true story about a memory or experience from your childhood that shaped your understanding of gender identity or expression.
Episode Links:
Audio Clip Sources:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL1d7kG3xv4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx0A_q1PMKY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErMkf-Pm9xU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IxUluSacnc
Featuring “Legs” by Laganja Estranja:
https://open.spotify.com/track/5vcqVfH15uWnASbwkrXmSw?si=642447779f2c4ba5
Statistic Source:
https://www.aclu.org/legislative-attacks-on-lgbtq-rights-2024
TMI Project Staff
This episode was produced in partnership with Radio Kingston. It was written, edited, and produced by Eva Tenuto, Blake Pfeil, and Raine Grayson.
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JAY
“And I remember when it touched the back of my neck and it was just like this beautiful powerful moment where I was like, ‘Okay, this is it. This is who you are. You are a feminine being, and you can no longer deny yourself that joy, that pleasure, that truth, that honesty, and you can no longer deny those around you that same journey either.’”
[“Secrets” by Edison Woods]
EVA
It's The TMI Project Story Hour, a series of true stories created in our writing workshops by everyday unsung heroes. They all divulge the too much information parts we usually keep to ourselves for personal liberation, human connection, and freedom, both for themselves and those who listen.
Before we get started, we just want to let you know that, as the TMI implies, some content might be too much information for some listeners. And remember, your support keeps our content free and accessible to everyone who wants to listen, so if you like what you hear, and you're able to chip in at tmiproject.org, thank you. Either way, we are glad you're listening.
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EVA
It’s The TMI Project Story Hour—a series of true stories created in our writing workshops by everyday, unsung heroes. They all divulge the too-much-information parts we usually keep to ourselves for personal liberation, human connection, and freedom, both for themselves and those who listen.
Before we get started, we just want to let you know that as the TMI implies, some content might be too much information for some listeners.
And remember, your support keeps our content free and accessible to everyone who wants to listen. So if you like what you hear and you're able to chip in at tmiproject.org, thank you. Either way, we are glad you're listening.
EVA
Welcome back to The TMI Project Story Hour! I’m Eva Tenuto. It’s great to be back after a long break, and we have a lot in store for you this year. We’re back to seasons. This coming Wednesday, we’ll be dropping a trailer for Season Seven, Vicarious Resilience, a beautiful collection of stories about mental health so stay tuned. But, before we dive in, we wanted to welcome you back with a special story featuring the one and only Jay Jackson, known to most as Laganja Estranja from Season 6 of RuPaul’s Drag Race!
JAY: “Oh, y’all wanted a twist, eh? C’mon Season 6! Let’s get sickeninnnng!”
GIA: “Yes, bitch, WORK.”
[“LEGS” by Laganja Estranga feat. Rye Rye.]
EVA
We presented Jay with the Voices in Action Award last year and today’s host, Blake Pfeil, is thrilled to share Jay’s story with you. Welcome, Blake!
BLAKE
Thanks, Eva. Hey everybody. It’s great to be back, and I couldn’t be more excited. You might be familiar with Laganja Estranga and her public persona, but today, we’re celebrating the woman behind the wig: my dear friend Jay Jackson.
JAY
I'm most known for my drag artistry from RuPaul's Drag Race Season 6 and All Stars 6, so I do work in the drag field mostly, so what that encompasses is live performances, brand deals, and ultimately just living my life out loud and proud and hopefully inspiring others to do the same.
[“Pandora” by The New Fools]
BLAKE
It’s been amazing to watch Jay rise to stardom through her drag career. However, as someone who's known Jay for over a decade, I can tell you that she’s so much more. She’s an activist, an artist, a choreographer, and a damn good storyteller. She’s able to take the answer to a simple question like, “Who are you?” and turn it into a story of her own.
JAY
I definitely consider myself an artist, so I do all kinds of things, whatever will pay the bills.
I went to the California Institute of the Arts. I got my degree in dance and choreography. This was after I was awarded the Presidential Scholar of the Arts. Basically, my first year out of college, my best friend Lindsay Newton and I tried to start our own dance company, and we did not meet much success. It was very difficult, and my drag career really took off. I began working locally in WeHo and really building a name for myself because at that time, specifically in Los Angeles, there wasn't really a dancing queen to my caliber, and because of that, I really kind of created a brand as a dancing queen.
I think due to the fact that my mother, my drag mother, Alyssa Edwards, was such a huge success on Season 5, people on RuPaul's Drag Race had their eyes on me. And so I was extremely lucky to get cast on that show after only doing drag for a year. Being on that show, it really launched me into drag.
ALYSSA EDWARDS
“So I had met - before she was Laganja honey - good ol’ gay Jay Jackson at the good ol’ gay dance school in Mesquite, Texas.”
JAY
That's why I always say drag chose me. I did not choose it. Choreography has always been my passion, which is why I've always tried to like sneak it in, in between the gigs. I think dance is a universal language, and as someone who has literally traveled the universe except for outer space, dance really does reach people on such a global scale, and I think, you know, drag definitely does too, but it's still limiting, especially in the climate that we live in now. I'm definitely trying to focus on doing both. I think I'm happiest when I'm able to balance the drag career with the choreography.
BLAKE
Even more delightful, though, is watching Jay grow into not just her Drag Queen Superstardom but her identity and advocacy since coming out as trans in 2021.
[“Pressure Lover” by Blood Red Sun]
JAY
The reason I really started drag was because I didn't understand my trans identity. I think what drag gave me was the ability to express my femininity, but also to compartmentalize it and say, “Well, this is just my job. This is something I put on and I do and I take off.” Over the years, I think I began to realize that those lines were very blurred. And I think now, that's why I'm getting to this new place in my life, where as much as I love drag, I don't want to do it all the time because I do live in my honest truth, and I don't need drag. I don't need false lashes and rhinestones and falling on my back to feel happy anymore.
I needed that at a time in my life because I wasn't able to live in my truth as a trans woman. Now that I am, I'm getting in glam every day, and I don't feel the need to exaggerate that quite as much.
I think I've always known I was trans, but unfortunately, growing up in Dallas, Texas in the ‘90s, there wasn't education. There wasn't representation, and so I never really had the words to explain how I felt.
I remember at a young age being on the playground and girls asking me, like, “Do you wish you were a girl?” And I would always reply, “Yes.” People would call my home, and I would pick up the phone, and I had a very feminine voice then too, and people would be like, “Oh, Nancy,” which is my mother.
So I definitely have always had this femininity brewing within me, but I don't think it was until RuPaul's Drag Race season two, Kylie Sonique Love, that I saw myself on TV. Even when she competed on season two, she wasn't allowed to talk about her trans identity, but I think any viewer who watched that felt that femininity from her, and I know I did.
RUPAUL
“Do you feel safe to share something with the group?”
KYLIE SONIQUE LOVE
“I’ve always been a girl. I’ve always been a girl trapped in a boy’s body. I started doing drag, and there’s just something about it that wasn’t enough. And I went to a doctor and he put me on testosterone blockers and then moved me to hormones, and my levels are even, and I’ve never been happier in my whole life.”
[“Rehearsal Decay” / “Moonlit” by By Lotus]
JAY
And I'll never forget when I met her at Mickey's West Hollywood, which is a very popular gay club where I actually got my start as Laganja. And she told me that, basically, I came up to her and was like, “I'm trans, what do I do?”
And when I got on season six, I met Gia Gunn who at that time wasn't living as a trans woman but definitely was on the brink of that, and I remember her telling me, “You're trans- - like, you're trans.” I think that's when I really started toying with the idea. I remember telling people like “Well, I am trans, but I'm gonna wait till my parents die. I just can't put them through that.”
I think I held onto that for a very long time. And it wasn't really until Corona[virus], when we were all forced to sit with ourselves, that I began to change the way I felt about that. I began to want my parents to know the person they raised, and there was a moment when my hair grew out because I used to cut my hair up with like designs on the sides of my head, and obviously during Corona[virus] I couldn't go see a barber, and so my hair grew out long. And I remember when it touched the back of my neck, and it was just like this beautiful powerful moment where I was like, “Okay, this is it. This is who you are. You are a feminine being, and you can no longer deny yourself that joy, that pleasure, that truth, that honesty. And you can no longer deny those around you that same journey either.”
I came out very publicly. I told my parents two weeks before I did this– which, looking back– that was pretty unfair of me in a way and kind of hard to be like, “Hey, Mom and Dad, by the way, I'm trans and in two weeks, Entertainment Weekly is dropping the story.”
But in a way, I'm glad that I ripped the Band Aid off because once I came out in such a public way, and once the story really broke– it did, it went international. Which was so crazy to me because other sisters of mine had just recently come out, and I think because they were of color, they were not received the way I was. I began to realize very early on in this journey that there was going to be such an inequality and such a privilege, and that's what really made me want to be an activist in this realm because I've been a cannabis activist for a decade.
BLAKE
I’m sure some of you have noticed the release date of today’s episode, and you’d be correct that there is correlation between April 20th and today’s special guest. It’s no secret that many fans recognize Laganja Estranja as an avid cannabis user, and in honor of her long standing advocacy for cannabis rights, we’ve chosen to release today’s episode on 4/20.
[“Rhubarb” by Esme Cruz]
For those of you who don’t know, long before Jay rose to prominence as a trans advocate, Laganja Estranja was making waves in the cannabis community, championing its benefits and pushing for its legal-ization.
JAY
Once I discovered in California that cannabis was actually medicine for me, it really kind of opened my mind up to the fact that maybe a lot of things I'd been told were bad weren't bad.
When creating the character Laganja Estranja, I come from this sort of idea that any queen, whether they're a beauty queen or a pageant queen, should have a platform that's larger than themselves that they stand on and preach about.
I chose cannabis because I felt like it was a more natural form of medicine. I felt like it was amazing when it comes to harm reduction, and I ultimately felt like It was something that was a lot safer than let's say alcohol or drugs.
NEWS ANCHOR 1
...on the brink of a major change: the beginning of recreational cannabis sales in California. In just days, marijuana will be available…
NEWS ANCHOR 2
“..last night voters passed Proposition 64, legalizing marijuana in the state…
NEWS ANCHOR 3
“...Californians 21 and older can now legally grow, smoke, or chew their way into an altered state, effective immediately.”
JAY
I think as queer people, a lot of people are looking for a way to escape their life, and alcohol and drugs is like the number one go to, so I felt like, “Well, maybe if I could give cannabis a positive name, then it would help my community in a way.”
It's been incredible. It's been incredibly hard. The cannabis industry is extremely homophobic and transphobic, and I'll be honest, over the years I've sort of given up on that side of my brand because so many doors kept getting closed and closed in my face, that it was like, “Okay, I'm good. What's the next step for me?” I still very much ultimately hope to return to the cannabis industry, but I think I needed to grow on my own and become stronger and ultimately figure out my trans identity so that when I come back to the community, I'm able to be, you know, stronger.
[“Ocean Waves” by By Lotus]
BLAKE
Even though she’s known as a fierce cannabis activist, Jay’s relationship with the plant changed a lot after she came out as trans.
JAY
Once I got on hormones, my relationship to cannabis really changed drastically. I think a lot of my life I used cannabis to numb a lot of these feelings that I felt as a trans person. Once I started living in my truth and getting on my hormone replacement therapy, I realized that I didn't need cannabis quite like I did, and that ultimately, I most likely was over-medicating as a way to run away from these feelings I felt. It's very funny now because people will offer me weed at my shows, and I used to be the girl that would light up right there and smoke the whole joint with the people and all of that, and now it's like, I hit it once or twice, and I'm like, “I'm good!” And that's the thing I always tell people is I can still be an activist and not be smoking a pound a day. I have a different relationship with the plant now, and I'm able to use it in a different way, but when it comes to being a trans activist I'm still very new, and I still have a lot to learn, but I try every single day to amplify those other voices that are not often heard.
It is hard, and it is scary to come out, but it's harder and scarier to live your life in falsehood. My best advice to people would be to listen to yourself, to trust yourself, to breathe, to take the time you need to come to the realization, and once you do, don't wait. I don't believe in regret. I believe in learning lessons. I don't regret it, but I definitely wish that I had come to this conclusion or had the bravery sooner, A.) for medical reasons, getting on hormone blockers, taking estrogen, that would have been great had I done that sooner, but B.) because like… denying yourself the pleasure of being who you are I think is one of the most detrimental things you can do to yourself. Don't worry about what others are going to think or how people will react because eventually they will figure it out, and what's most important is you and your journey.
BLAKE
Since then, Jay has blossomed into a powerful advocate. She leads by example, showing the ups and downs of life through her vlogs and performances, showcasing not just her own experiences as a trans person - but also, the importance of political action.
JAY
“But please remember, we are never gonna move forward if you don’t get out and vote in fucking November.”
JAY
“The last two days, Mary’s used to have a 6 pm show–”
QUEEN BEE
“--yes, and the law… we’re not allowed to have kids.”
JAY
“At the 6 pm show? Even though you all did appropriate music for the kids?”
QUEEN BEE
“Yes, not even on Sunday’s brunch.”
JAY
“Has it been all unicorns and rainbows? No, it’s definitely been a struggle. I definitely have anxiety especially going into the women’s restroom - that’s something I struggle with on the daily…”
“So that’s also why y’all I’m feeling a very sense of empowerment being here in Florida to show myself, to be, you know, visibly trans and show up for my people in community - and it’s just crazy, y’all. So let’s stick together and use that power of voting.”
[“Keyless Entry” by Esme Cruz / “Thoughts About the Past” by Elm Lake]
BLAKE
Jay’s emergence as a trans advocate couldn’t come at a more needed time in our nation’s history. At the time of recording, there are currently 448 anti-LGBTQ bills on the docket in the United States, each one uniquely attacking the right for queer and trans folks to simply exist. These bills range from school sports bans, a legal re-definition of sex, curriculum censorship, healthcare barriers, school facility bans, forced outing in schools, public accommodation bans, drag bans, and so, so much more. But, Jay is still getting used to claiming the word “activist” as part of her identity. It’s a new role for her and that made it all the more special to honor her for her work. She was still baffled that she was going to be presented an award at all.
JAY
I'll be honest, in receiving this award, I was like, “Ugh, I don't know… there's a part of me that's like, it doesn't feel right, I'm too new, I'm too this, I'm too that,” but I think you’re right in saying that we get to do this our own way, and the way in which I've done this is beautiful, and, and deserves to be recognized, so just thank you.
BLAKE
It was such an honor to reunite with my old friend and watch her accept the 2023 Voices in Action Award. Jay couldn’t believe she was going to be presented with the award by Celeste Lesecne, the co-founder of The Trevor Project, the largest LGBTQIA+ suicide hotline, responsible for saving countless lives over the last 25 years.
We’re so excited to invite you into that special night, so you can hear what Celeste had to say and Jay’s acceptance speech. What an incredible moment to watch someone from the LGBTQIA+ community who has dedicated decades of his life to the movement celebrate someone just getting started.
Take a listen.
CELESTE
I have the great honor of introducing the guest of honor this evening, and I'm so thrilled. And I wrote a little something.
I don't need to tell anybody here how important it is that we support those people who identify as LGBTQIA+, and especially the trans and nonbinary individuals among us. While politicians are busy passing laws designed to silence and disappear us, trying to deny us health care we deserve, banning our forms of entertainment, removing rights that we fought so hard to win for ourselves, and casting us as a threat to children, Laganja is continuing to be herself: publicly, flamboyantly, extravagantly, as you'll see, insistently, and like many of us, doing it in the face of “no.” Personally, I think it would be wrong to simply stand by and allow her, at this moment, to feel attacked.
Because what we want for you tonight, what we want for you every day of your life, Laganja, is to feel loved. Can you feel it?
So, please: everyone, if you will, put your lighters up and show some love for the winner of the 2023 Voices in Action Award, the fabulous, the fantastic, the iconic, and the utterly outrageous, Laganja Estranja.
JAY
Y'all, give it up for Celeste! Oh, my God!
You know, if you had told little queer Jay Jackson from Dallas, Texas– that's a double dollar sign- that one day the co-founder and Academy Award-winner of The Trevor Project would present me with an award, I would have never, ever believed it, in fact, I would’ve told you…
BLAKE
Laganja goes on to thank her friends and family, but it was the final part of her speech that really got us.
JAY
And last, but certainly not least, to quote the great Snoop Dog, I want to thank my motherfucking self, okay? And I don't mean to say that in a cocky way. I mean to say it, rather, in a confident way. As someone who hated themself for so many years, it wasn't until 2021 when I came out as transgender that I really began to understand the true meaning of loving oneself. And as someone who traveled the world, preaching the Gospel of RuPaul and saying, “If you can't love yourself, how in the hell can you love someone else?” – I lied to myself. I lied to myself for so many years, and it wasn't until I decided to really own who I am and come out as transgender that I began to feel that I am enough, and if there's anything that I can leave all of you with tonight, it's that you are so beautiful. And don't you let anybody, including yourself, tell you differently.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. This means so much to me. This is my first award I've ever won as Laganja Estranja AND as Jay Jackson. I cannot wait to place this on my mantle. And truly, from the bottom of my heart, I love each and every one of you, and I cannot wait to come out here and slay the stage and show you why it is I am the 2023 recipient of this award. OhhhhKUUUUUUUR!
I love you guys. Thank you so much!
BLAKE
Hey, Jay. We just want to remind you of how amazing you are. Sometimes you might feel new and unsteady in your trans advocacy role, but remember, you’ve already done so much. And we can’t wait to see what you do next. So keep shining bright, Jay, and know that your voice and your presence make a profound difference in this world. We love you.
EVA
Thank you so much for hosting today, Blake. I am so glad we got to share Jay’s story.
Before you go, don’t forget we’re back to seasons again and dropping our trailer for Season 7: Vicarious Resilience, next Wednesday, and we will be sharing a beautiful collection of stories about mental health and mental illness.
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BLAKE: Special thanks to Laganja Estranja for letting us use her track “Legs” for this episode. You can listen to “Legs” wherever you get your music.
EVA: If you like what we're doing, please subscribe, rate, and leave a review wherever you get your podcasts. It really helps. TMI Project is available to offer true storytelling workshops and performances for your school or workplace. To learn more or to support our work, you can find details about it all at tmiproject.org.
This episode of The TMI Project Story Hour was produced in partnership with Radio Kingston. It was written, edited, and produced by me, Eva Tenuto, Blake Pfeil, and Raine Grayson. Our theme song is Secrets by Edison Woods.
I'm TMI Project's Executive Director. Our Operations and Programs Manager is Blake Pfeil. Our Organizational Administrator is Raine Grayson. Our Marketing and Digital Coordinator is Laura Marie Ruoco. Our Administrative Assistant is Riley Gibbons. Our graphic designer and webmaster is Lauren Gill. Our Partnership Outreach Coordinator is Dara Lurie. Our workshop leaders are Perla Ayora, Haley Downs, Raine Grayson, Rae Lipkind, Dara Laurie, Micah, Julie Novak, Blake Pfeil, and me, Eva Tenuto.
To learn more and to find a special writing prompt so you can start telling your story, visit tmiproject.org slash podcast.
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